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- Godless in America: Conversations With an Atheist - by George A. Ricker
- Interventions - by Noam Chomsky
- Religious Expression and the American Constitution - by Franklyn S. Haiman
- Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future - by Bill McKibben
- The God Delusion - by Richard Dawkins
- The Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal - by Jared Diamond
- The Woman in the Dunes - by Abe Kobo
- Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction - by Eugenie Scott
- The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals - by Michael Pollan
- I, Claudius: From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 - by Robert Graves
- Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon - by Daniel Dennett
- A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East - by David Fromkin
- The Time Traveler's Wife - by Audrey Niffenegger
- The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason - by Sam Harris
- Ender's Game - by Orson Scott Card
- The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time - by Mark Haddon
- Value & Virtue in a Godless Universe - by Erik J. Wielenberg
- The March: A Novel - by E.L. Doctorow
- The Ethical Brain - by Michael Gazzaniga
- Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism - by Susan Jacoby
- Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed - by Jared Diamond
- The Battle for God - by Karen Armstrong
- The Future of Life - by Edward O. Wilson
- What is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live - by A.C. Grayling
- Civilization and It's Enemies: The Next Stage of History - by Lee Harris
- Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space - by Carl Sagan
- How We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God - by Michael Shermer
- Looking For Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain - by Antonio Damasio
- Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them): A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right - by Al Franken
- The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature - by Matt Ridley
- The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature - by Stephen Pinker
- Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder - by Richard Dawkins
- Atheism: A Reader - edited by S. T. Joshi
- Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century - by Howard Bloom
- The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History - by Howard Bloom
- Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies - by Jared Diamond
- Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark - by Carl Sagan
- Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West - by Dee Alexander Brown
- Future Shock - by Alvin Toffler
Ch. 13 -The market: "greetings from the non-barcode peo
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Chris OConnor |
Ch. 13 -The market: "greetings from the non-barcode peo |
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Indisputable BookTalk Master
Posts: 9511 10/01/06 22:48:53 BookTalk Owner |
Please use this thread for discussing Chapter 13.
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MadArchitect |
Re: Ch. 13 -The market: "greetings from the non-barcode | #1 | ||
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Posts: 3169 11/29/06 00:46:15 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
I'm midway through this chapter now, but I'll go ahead and say that what struck me most about it is the way that the USDA seems almost designed to work against the sort of conscientious food production that Salatin and company are trying to foster. The way Pollan tells it, they basically told Eggleston that they weren't going to sanction a slaughterhouse that didn't churn out an undifferentiated mass of industrial product. And because Salatin is prevented by law from slaughtering anything but chickens on his farm himself, that pretty much exhausts the options.
What I'm wondering now -- and I'm hoping that Pollan will spell this out later in the book -- is what happens to Salatin's cattle, and the good intentions that go along with them. Does he have to send them through the industrial system in order to get them to market? And to what degree does that compromise his achievements as a farmer of conscience? Another, semi-related though: Eggleston mentions the "we pile it high and sell it cheap" mentality of modern grocery stores. That's a mentality that's magnified exponentially by wholesale outlets like CostCo. (And incidentally, CostCo is getting some modest sanction by the "foodies" at Food Network -- over the weekend I happened to catch a few minutes of one cooking show where they recommended that viewers buy, oh the irony, cuts of beef from the wholesaler.) So the question I have is, how did we, as a culture, get to the point where that seemed like a good view of food? It's probably no accident that I started thinking that when I did. I read that passage in the book only a day or two after Thanksgiving, a typically American holiday -- typically American in that we've managed to adapt the fairly common phenomenon of agricultural festivals into something that has almost nothing to do with agriculture in the traditional sense. And what's the typical emblem of Thanksgiving? The symbol I remember most from childhood is that of the cornucopia, the horn of plenty, glutted with food. So it seems likely to me that this is an idea that's been simmering, if not fully articulated, at least since the pre-Revolutionary period. |
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AubreyAlexis |
I still have hope! | #2 | ||
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Posts: 20 12/05/06 12:24:55 Looks like I'm a regular now! |
Pollan states that the USDA regulatory system is based primarily on issues that came out after the publications of Sinclair's The Jungle. So, like many things in the world these specifications and assumptions of the meat processing industry don't always make any sense. I think that in time, we will be able to let go of many of those bizarre regulations for something that makes more sense for cattle raising etc.
Does anyone have a website or a rule of thumb or anything for seasonal eating? I would like to do more of that, but realize that I have grown up so far removed from the seasonality of the foods I crave and eat (they are just always available in stores....aren't they?) that I feel very ill-educated in this aspect. Help! |
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Loricat |
Re: I still have hope! | #3 | ||
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Posts: 600 12/05/06 17:02:39 OMG I'm Awesome! |
There's oodles of resources out there for you.
The 100-Mile Diet (www.100milediet.org/home/) people have some great tips. Local Harvest (www.localharvest.org/) is a great resource for finding local food in your area. And every first week of August is Eat In, Act Out week (www.thefoodproject.org/bl...p?ID=226), a chance to celebrate local food. (apologies for the lack of formatted links, for some reason, html wasn't available today!) "All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."
Loricat's Book Nook Celebrating the Absurd |
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MadArchitect |
Re: I still have hope! | #4 | ||
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Posts: 3169 12/06/06 18:26:08 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
The Joy of Cooking also makes mention of the seasonality of different foods throughout. I keep meaning to take a closer look at my copy and see if there's a section specifically on seasonality, but I keep forgetting.
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Loricat |
Re: I still have hope! | #5 | ||
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Posts: 600 12/07/06 11:46:09 OMG I'm Awesome! |
Or type 'seasonal food' into Google and you get:
sustnable.woodcraft.org.uk/1_act5a.htm Neato. "All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."
Loricat's Book Nook Celebrating the Absurd |
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AubreyAlexis |
Re: I still have hope! | #6 | ||
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Posts: 20 12/07/06 15:53:42 Looks like I'm a regular now! |
Cool! Thank you!
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MadArchitect |
Re: I still have hope! | #7 | ||
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Posts: 3169 12/07/06 19:25:08 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
The last link is from a British website (co.uk suffix, and all), which reminds me that seasonality depends in part on where you happen to be and what varieties of produce are available there. Is British cabbage the same as the most common cabbages grown on the Eastern seaboard of the U.S., where I live? Could be, but maybe not.
Incidentally, I did remember to check my copy of the Joy of Cooking last night. There doesn't appear to be a section on seasonality, although the background info the book gives on individual food items often mentions what time of year they're best. Again, the issue of regionality almost certainly makes for some variation. There has to be a better way to figure this all out. I wonder if maybe the best source for this sort of info might not be locally produced almanacs? Or better yet -- though more work-intensive -- asking someone who knows, like a local farmer. |
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Loricat |
Re: I still have hope! | #8 | ||
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Posts: 600 12/09/06 01:38:01 OMG I'm Awesome! |
I have a list for my local area -- it's on a farmers' market brochure for the province. That's all you really need to look for.
(and I didn't actually examine the site that I posted -- it just turned up as 1st on the google search and cooking sites, like epicurious.com, are NA-based, so you won't do wrong looking up seasonal recipes there. "All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."
Loricat's Book Nook Celebrating the Absurd |
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irishrosem |
Re: I still have hope! | #9 | ||
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Posts: 641 03/12/07 12:39:34 OMG I'm Awesome! |
I ate chickenier chicken!
To be honest, it was relief to eat meat again, well substantial food of any kind. Since reading Pollan's chapters based around Salatin's farm, I've decided to reconsider my eating choices. I haven't yet decided where that will take me. And I have yet to finish researching all my options for local, sustainable food. In the meantime, my first decision was to try to cut out all industrialized, processed food. I haven't been in a supermarket for the past four weeks. The only industrial food that I've eaten since reading Pollan's first few chapters was the Kashi cereal I already owned at the time. As I am sure you can imagine, this has severely limited my diet. I've been pretty much living on the cereal, eggs (sustainable), nuts and produce (sustainable). I already don't eat much meat, not for any moral reason, I just don't cook it very often. Most of the meat I get is already prepared (take-out, restaurants, etc.). Since, for the time being, I have eliminated prepared foods, I haven't eaten meat in weeks. I have to say, after the first few weeks, I started to miss it. Which leads me to my chickenier chicken. The local sustainable agriculture group I found referenced restaurants that support local farms and I tried one this weekend. It was a small BYO, very quaint. I had the chicken dish, which was very rich, but very good. When I read Pollan's "chickenier chicken" claim, I had thought "oh, brother." I just didn't think it was possible to make chicken taste chickenier. I've had "free range" chicken, and kosher chicken, and though they do taste different, I never thought of them as tasting chickenier. So though I was conscious of the claim, I had already dismissed the possibility of finding chicken chickiener. Yet that is exactly what I thought when I took that first bite. A couple bites in, I had convinced myself that it was the sauce that was making the chicken itself taste richer. So I cut out a piece of the chicken, without any sauce on it, took a sip a water to clear my palate and tried just the chicken. Again, it tasted chickenier to me. I decided it was in my head and filled up quite contentedly on my delicious meal. Towards the end of the meal, I offered a bite to one of my dining partners. I had said nothing about the "chickenier chicken." In fact, they knew we were there because of the Buy Fresh Buy Local reference, but they were much more focused on the produce, not the meat aspect. Her response to the chicken "It doesn't taste like chicken." I just exploded and told them all about the whole chickenier chicken thing. I kept saying, it can't be true, can it? My other dining partner tried, and he said it tasted almost like turkey, much more full-flavored than chicken normally tastes. So, the moral of this tale is there is such a think as "chickenier chicken" (I guess). My meal, and my guests' meals according to them, were all outstanding. It was fun seeing the menu that was designed using mostly local ingredients (their menu changes constantly according to what is available to them), and it felt good to support a restaurant that supports local agriculture. I highly suggest it; see if you find the chicken to be chickenier. |
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Loricat |
Re: I still have hope! | #10 | ||
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Posts: 600 03/19/07 20:27:38 OMG I'm Awesome! |
Congrats on the 'chickenier' chicken! I'm pretty excited myself, 'cause we're thinking of putting a garden in, and the Farmers' Market season is only 6 weeks away (okay, yes, it'll be a moment or two before the fresh produce is in...but it's still coming!)
"All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."
Loricat's Book Nook Celebrating the Absurd |
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- Member Introductions & Journals
- BookTalk News & Development
- Religion, Philosophy & the Arts
- Politics, Current Events & History
- Science, Nature & Technology
- General Discussion & Miscellaneous Topics
- Book Suggestions, Polls, & Reviews
- Additional Book Discussions
- Godless in America: Conversations With an Atheist - by George A. Ricker
- Interventions - by Noam Chomsky
- Religious Expression and the American Constitution - by Franklyn S. Haiman
- Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future - by Bill McKibben
- The God Delusion - by Richard Dawkins
- The Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal - by Jared Diamond
- The Woman in the Dunes - by Abe Kobo
- Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction - by Eugenie Scott
- The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals - by Michael Pollan
- I, Claudius: From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 - by Robert Graves
- Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon - by Daniel Dennett
- A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East - by David Fromkin
- The Time Traveler's Wife - by Audrey Niffenegger
- The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason - by Sam Harris
- Ender's Game - by Orson Scott Card
- The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time - by Mark Haddon
- Value & Virtue in a Godless Universe - by Erik J. Wielenberg
- The March: A Novel - by E.L. Doctorow
- The Ethical Brain - by Michael Gazzaniga
- Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism - by Susan Jacoby
- Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed - by Jared Diamond
- The Battle for God - by Karen Armstrong
- The Future of Life - by Edward O. Wilson
- What is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live - by A.C. Grayling
- Civilization and It's Enemies: The Next Stage of History - by Lee Harris
- Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space - by Carl Sagan
- How We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God - by Michael Shermer
- Looking For Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain - by Antonio Damasio
- Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them): A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right - by Al Franken
- The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature - by Matt Ridley
- The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature - by Stephen Pinker
- Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder - by Richard Dawkins
- Atheism: A Reader - edited by S. T. Joshi
- Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century - by Howard Bloom
- The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History - by Howard Bloom
- Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies - by Jared Diamond
- Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark - by Carl Sagan
- Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West - by Dee Alexander Brown
- Future Shock - by Alvin Toffler
