Please use this thread for discussing the 1st chapter of Deep Economy, which is entitled After Growth. If you would rather create your own threads feel free to do so.
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- Additional Book Discussions
- Godless in America: Conversations With an Atheist - by George A. Ricker
- Interventions - by Noam Chomsky
- Religious Expression and the American Constitution - by Franklyn S. Haiman
- Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future - by Bill McKibben
- The God Delusion - by Richard Dawkins
- The Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal - by Jared Diamond
- The Woman in the Dunes - by Abe Kobo
- Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction - by Eugenie Scott
- The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals - by Michael Pollan
- I, Claudius: From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 - by Robert Graves
- Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon - by Daniel Dennett
- A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East - by David Fromkin
- The Time Traveler's Wife - by Audrey Niffenegger
- The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason - by Sam Harris
- Ender's Game - by Orson Scott Card
- The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time - by Mark Haddon
- Value & Virtue in a Godless Universe - by Erik J. Wielenberg
- The March: A Novel - by E.L. Doctorow
- The Ethical Brain - by Michael Gazzaniga
- Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism - by Susan Jacoby
- Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed - by Jared Diamond
- The Battle for God - by Karen Armstrong
- The Future of Life - by Edward O. Wilson
- What is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live - by A.C. Grayling
- Civilization and It's Enemies: The Next Stage of History - by Lee Harris
- Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space - by Carl Sagan
- How We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God - by Michael Shermer
- Looking For Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain - by Antonio Damasio
- Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them): A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right - by Al Franken
- The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature - by Matt Ridley
- The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature - by Stephen Pinker
- Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder - by Richard Dawkins
- Atheism: A Reader - edited by S. T. Joshi
- Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century - by Howard Bloom
- The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History - by Howard Bloom
- Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies - by Jared Diamond
- Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark - by Carl Sagan
- Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West - by Dee Alexander Brown
- Future Shock - by Alvin Toffler
Ch. 1 - After Growth
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Chris OConnor |
Ch. 1 - After Growth |
Lead | ||
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Indisputable BookTalk Master
Posts: 9511 04/06/07 23:55:36 BookTalk Owner |
Ch. 1 - After Growth Please use this thread for discussing the 1st chapter of Deep Economy, which is entitled After Growth. If you would rather create your own threads feel free to do so. |
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Dissident Heart |
More is not always Better | #1 | ||
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Posts: 1868 04/09/07 11:15:28 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
Mckibben argues that our current economic system is destructively fixated on growth. He describes three fundamental challenges to the dominant paradigm that "more is better":
1. Political: economic growth, at least as we now create it, is producing more insecurity/instability than progress. 2. Physics/Chemistry: we do not have the energy needed to continue growing and neither do we have the space to store the resultant pollutants. 3. Psychological: this unprecedented economic growth is not making us happier. Even with all of this stuff, we have relatively little to show for it; our planet can not sustain the process; and it really doesn't make us any happier after all. Ulitmately, McKibben argues, we can no longer reduce the essence of our economic decision making to: what course of action will bring me more? Thus the title, Deep Economy (taken from the environmentalist movement Deep Ecology ) as an attempt to ask beyond the surface of mere accumulation and delve deeper into the values and meaning that motivate everyday choices of production and consumption. Deep Economy is one way to envision an economic system that takes seriously the combination of human satisfaction, social durability and ecological sustainability. |
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Loricat |
Re: More is not always Better | #2 | ||
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Posts: 600 04/09/07 14:11:29 OMG I'm Awesome! |
Still waiting on my book. [have distinct feelings of bookal envy]
But can't help think that a good companion volume to this discussion might be Alain de Botton's book Status Anxiety. In it, he tries to address the root causes of our need for more, our need to be bigger than we are...and ways of overcoming that need. "All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."
Loricat's Book Nook Celebrating the Absurd |
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misterpessimistic |
Re: More is not always Better | #3 | ||
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Indisputable BookTalk Master
Posts: 4113 04/09/07 14:43:10 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
I also saw this today and it interested me.
Consumed: How Markets Corrupt Children, Infantilize Adults, and Swallow Citizens Whole I presented the idea a while back to have "TOPIC" discussions, as opposed to sinlge book discussions...this way we can bring different opinions in to the mix and people who might have other sources would feel more inclined to participate even if they do not like a particular book choice. Mr. P. I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - Asana Boditharta (former booktalk troll) The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P. What is all this shit about Angels? Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people believe in Angels. Are you F****** STUPID? Has everybody lost their mind? - George Carlin I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper |
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Loricat |
Re: More is not always Better | #4 | ||
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Posts: 600 04/09/07 23:30:57 OMG I'm Awesome! |
Mr. P -- I'm with you. I think this book discussion is going to be more about where the book leads us than the book itself.
Ooo...as discussion leader, do I get to make these kinds of executive decisions?!? I say let's go ahead, and post to the chapters, but also to over-arching themes as they come up. Power. I love it! "All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."
Loricat's Book Nook Celebrating the Absurd |
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Chris OConnor |
Re: More is not always Better | #5 | ||
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Indisputable BookTalk Master
Posts: 9511 04/10/07 09:51:47 BookTalk Owner |
I suppose each participant gets to decide how they wish to participate. We have the chapter threads simply as a guideline, but it is completely acceptable to branch off and create side discussions about anything related to the book. Nobody should feel obligated to remain within the chapter thread structure.
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Dissident Heart |
Re: More is not always Better | #6 | ||
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Posts: 1868 04/10/07 10:49:23 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
loricat: Alain de Botton's book Status Anxiety. In it, he tries to address the root causes of our need for more, our need to be bigger than we are...and ways of overcoming that need.
Making sense of the eco-damaging and self-destructive drive for more is certainly key to McKiben's book. McKibben asks Quote: He does not answer by highlighting human greed, vanity, penchant for gluttony or disregard for the welfare of others...instead he says, "we kept doing something past the point where it worked. Since happiness increased with income in the past, we assumed it would do so in the future." Americans and Europeans at the time of Adam Smith had it pretty darned rough when procuring basic needs like food, shelter, clothing, literacy...the more of these the better was life; their absence equaled squalor, misery and poverty. McKibben says, "Is it any wonder, then, that we built a considerable velocity trying to escape the gravitational pull of that kind of poverty?" In other words, our economic drive for more is so potent because it has worked so well...now, it is out of control, travelling along a trajectory that spells ecological disaster, social anome and personal despair. It's like the person who rationalizes that if two prescribed pills will make him feel better, then four will make him feel great. Mr. P, I heard a discussion about Consumed: How Markets Corrupt Children, Infantilize Adults, and Swallow Citizens Whole on NPR yesterday morning. McKibben is not making an argument against markets, but he is challenging the dominant economic model that, as he says "worships markets as infallible". We need to "consciously limit their scope" and "downplay efficiency and pay attention to other goals." I am looking forward to his examination of regional, local economies that draw upon the farmer's market model. Still, I think the Consumed piece you mention could provide a strong support to the ways that McKibben describes our current drive for more as not increasing happiness. |
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garicker |
Re: More is not always Better | #7 | ||
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Posts: 262 04/10/07 18:27:46 Smarty Pants |
Chris: I suppose each participant gets to decide how they wish to participate. We have the chapter threads simply as a guideline, but it is completely acceptable to branch off and create side discussions about anything related to the book. Nobody should feel obligated to remain within the chapter thread structure.
I think one only has to look at last quarter's discussion of The God Delusion to see that these conversations can't be pigeonholed anyway. I'm going to be ordering my book tomorrow so I'll probably be joining the discussion later, after I've received it and read it. I'm going to be away from my computer for a while, anyway. I'll have to catch up with this down the road. George "Godlessness is not about denying the existence of nonsensical beings. It is the starting point for living life without them."
Godless in America by George A. Ricker |
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irishrosem |
Re: More is not always Better | #8 | ||
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Posts: 641 04/13/07 14:05:58 OMG I'm Awesome! |
In this chapter McKibbin writes: "the men and women at the center of our economic and political lives have not treated climate change as anything more than another problem to be dealt with as we've dealt with problems in the past; certainly they don't perceive it as something that would call into question the doctrine of endless economic expansion" (24, emphasis mine). He cites liberals who "question not expansion but only the way that the new money is spread around," and how "the Democratic party and the union movement typically demand even faster growth." Essentially, wherever you stand along the economic divide, from CEO to labor, we're all equally "intellectually invested in the current system" (14).
I wonder what kind of economic and political platform could emerge, within an industrialized, Western nation, which questions economic growth. Could a politician develop a successful campaign where she espouses decelerated economic growth? To me, it (a campaign based on decelerated economic growth, not necessarily the deceleration itself) sounds like a ludicrous idea. She wouldn't get anywhere. Which illustrates McKibbin's point that-assuming this is a necessary or attractive course-there would need to be a substantial reeducation/consciousness-raising effort to demonstrate that ever-expanding economic growth and development is not sustainable. And, according to McKibbin's discussion in this chapter, this would need to include along with climate change, a discussion involving the social impact of unmitigated growth. So my question is, who sees McKibbin's premise as something that needs to be seriously considered and examined, and who thinks it's crazy to question the virtues of economic expansion? One other thought. McKibbin refers to an annual poll taken by the National Opinion Research Council which asks, "would you say that you are very happy, pretty happy, or not too happy?" (35). According to the poll, the U.S. for "very happy" peaked in the 1950s and steadily declined to today. But I wonder if there is more to consider than the issues McKibbin raises. Could the increased rate of reported dissatisfaction parallel individuals becoming more honest with their feelings? Can you picture a 1950s housewife admitting to her unhappiness? (I'm imagining the 1950s character from The Hours.) Compare an individual from 1950 to 2007, aren't people, male and female, more explicit with their emotions? Part of the mass media effort (I'm not saying this was a concerted effort) mid-20th century demonstrated happiness, especially post-WWII. Americans were expected to play the part of the contented U.S. citizen. Trade June Cleaver for Roseanne Barr. Media at the end of the 20th century demonstrated that it was o.k. to be honest with your emotions-good or bad. Teen angst became a t.v. drama genre all its own. Hiding your emotional failings from you neighbors became less essential. And keeping up with the Joneses traded appearances of contentedness with actual material consumption. I don't know whether or not we are less happy now-I just think there are more things to take into account than economic development. |
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Dissident Heart |
Re: More is not always Better | #9 | ||
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Posts: 1868 04/14/07 10:49:59 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
irishrose: I wonder what kind of economic and political platform could emerge, within an industrialized, Western nation, which questions economic growth.
If we were lucky, one that alligned its values and aspirations with the best of climate change science and the demands of ecological sustainability. irishrose: who sees McKibbin's premise as something that needs to be seriously considered and examined, and who thinks it's crazy to question the virtues of economic expansion? I think McKibben's thesis (more does not inevitably lead to better, and can actually lead to economic disparity, social anome, and ecological devastation) is certainly worthy of careful scrutiny and consideration. I think crazy involves the continued pursuit of a course of action, thinking that it will eventually produce different results. Encouraging the virtues of economic expansion (along US trajectories) in China and India is crazy. Actually, I think another title for Mckibben's book could have been (pace Dawkins) The Economic Expansion Delusion. irishrose: I don't know whether or not we are less happy now-I just think there are more things to take into account than economic development. I think this is a very good point. How hedonics was approached in the early cold war era and how it is understood today would obviously impact any comparison between opinions provided then and now. I hope we can spend more time examining some of the many actual results that Mckibben refers to in his book. Still, the possibility that housewives were less than honest in the 50's regarding their state of happiness does not (I think) override the generally increasing dysphoria of the present. And no doubt there is more to this equation than economic development. What, do you think, is the proper place for economic development in the production of happiness or dysphoria? |
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RaulRamos |
Re: More is not always Better | #10 | ||
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Posts: 28 04/16/07 13:22:12 Looks like I'm a regular now! |
Quote: I do believe greed, vanity, disregard for the welfare of others and so on are very much part of human nature (Dawkins would surely agree - I have only read The Selfish Gene, and that a long time ago - maybe he has evolved in a different direction). But I find that McKibben is right at tackling the problem from a different perspective: given that we, human beings, seem to be only capable of thinking in selfish (materialistic) terms, he tries to show by argument that the course we are taking puts us on the losing side: we are destroying our own shelter, we are depleting our food (and drink) sources and on top of that we are showing a sadder and sadder face. I think the difficult process of becoming conscious to which he makes reference goes necessarily through the realization that we, ourselves, are getting less and less. That has a potential to mobilize human beings as few sermons would have. I love sometimes McKibbens humor. I find his 'true, your heart is shot - but look at those six-pack abs' brilliant as an example. |
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Loricat |
Re: More is not always Better | #11 | ||
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Posts: 600 04/17/07 10:51:43 OMG I'm Awesome! |
Rose: So my question is, who sees McKibbin's premise as something that needs to be seriously considered and examined, and who thinks it's crazy to question the virtues of economic expansion?
I see this discussion as something that we need -- but that it is crazy-optimistic to even throw it out on the table. Reading the intro and first chapter, I'm trying to envision what one of the 1% of the population would think of it -- the 1% of the Western population that has reaped the enormous benefits of the growth economy...the leaders in corporations & government. I think they would all read this first chapter and nod, saying to themselves: "Of course it's good for me!" Dissident Heart: I think crazy involves the continued pursuit of a course of action, thinking that it will eventually produce different results. Encouraging the virtues of economic expansion (along US trajectories) in China and India is crazy. The question of China and India -- McKibben mentions them a few times, as these big, looming problems. The main problem is, we, in the West, have no right to try to control what they do....It's like the big sister being allowed to wear makeup and date boys, but the little sister being told "oh no, we've learned that it leads to bad things, so you can't do it!" To tell those countries they can't have the trappings of wealth because we've already botched up the whole world enough for everyone -- we need to be able to give them real options. RaulRamos: But I find that McKibben is right at tackling the problem from a different perspective: given that we, human beings, seem to be only capable of thinking in selfish (materialistic) terms, he tries to show by argument that the course we are taking puts us on the losing side: we are destroying our own shelter, we are depleting our food (and drink) sources and on top of that we are showing a sadder and sadder face. I agree -- I think he's very aware of his desired audience. It's not us he needs to convince -- it's decision-makers, money-makers, and the rest of the 1%. "All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."
Loricat's Book Nook Celebrating the Absurd |
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RaulRamos |
Growth through fair income distribution | #12 | ||
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Posts: 28 04/17/07 14:39:13 Looks like I'm a regular now! |
The author writes:
Quote: I'd like to find more about that 'persuasive evidence'. Does anybody know where I can find it? |
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misterpessimistic |
Re: Growth through fair income distribution | #13 | ||
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Indisputable BookTalk Master
Posts: 4113 04/17/07 14:45:47 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
I am not sure where this evidence is, but if you think about it, would not more people having more money equate to more people buying things and thus making the economy grow?
Mr. P. I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - Asana Boditharta (former booktalk troll) The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P. What is all this shit about Angels? Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people believe in Angels. Are you F****** STUPID? Has everybody lost their mind? - George Carlin I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper |
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RaulRamos |
Re: Growth through fair income distribution | #14 | ||
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Posts: 28 04/17/07 16:12:35 Looks like I'm a regular now! |
Quote: Yes, that's a point. I do sympathise with the idea to which MacKibben makes reference, and I'd like to get as many reasons as possible supporting it. However the first thing that came to my mind were the Scandinavian countries, where until very recently policies have been about fair income distribution and as far as I know they are not the epitome of economic growth (though a good example of a state providing welfare). |
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misterpessimistic |
Re: Growth through fair income distribution | #15 | ||
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Indisputable BookTalk Master
Posts: 4113 04/17/07 18:19:47 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
But even though on one level I sympathize with this position, I reject it as the answer and I do not think McKibben is suggesting this as a solution. This would, I think, exacerbate the problem we are talking about here.
We do not need to find a way to make people equal in their ability to buy more stuff, we need to educate people as to why we do NOT need to buy more stuff. It is reduction, not redistribution, that McKibben is calling for as I see it so far. Also, I think McKibben is throwing an accusation at those who are pro-growth in that if they really wanted full growth, and not growth for a few to benefit from, then a redistribution of wealth would accomodate that. But the few do not want everyone to benefit, the few want the few to benefit. The rest will be left holding the bag. Mr. P. I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - Asana Boditharta (former booktalk troll) The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P. What is all this shit about Angels? Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people believe in Angels. Are you F****** STUPID? Has everybody lost their mind? - George Carlin I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper |
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RaulRamos |
Re: Growth through fair income distribution | #16 | ||
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Posts: 28 04/18/07 16:00:52 Looks like I'm a regular now! |
Quote: Absolutely. He even criticizes how left-oriented liberals have been duped by the growth-trap and instead of discussing the sense of growth they discuss distribution. The idea of questioning whether it is growth what we want, and that at any cost, has all my sympathies. But mainly for the second and third reasons McKibben presents. That is, because we are destroying this planet and because perhaps it is not growth (and the consequent material possessions) that brings happiness. I have the impression since I finished the chapter that there is some flaw in the first reasoning. This point presents the problem of growth as engendering more inequality, and at the same time the author says that actually fairer distribution would produce more growth. This point in itself (without taking the other two into consideration) is not a plea against growth, but for distribution. I'm not sure whether I am right with this criticism, and I intend to read that part again. |
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RaulRamos |
Hedonics - Median wages | #17 | ||
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Posts: 28 04/18/07 16:10:19 Looks like I'm a regular now! |
Since I will be on holiday for the next few days and there are some things I would like to comment with you before you move on to the second chapter, I will include them in this message:
I was intrigued by the information on hedonics and did some web research. Logically there are many critics against this branch of research. I came across an interesting website where the effects of hedonic claims on legal processes are discussed. I find their criticism correct, although their focus differ from McKibben's. Our author just speaks about deciding whether the existence of certain feelings is also reflected physically, and this article reflects on the attempts to place a price tag to those feelings or to the whole experience of a lifetime. Nevertheless, I thought some of you might find the link interesting: An Academic Study and a District Court Dispute The Hedonic Damage Theory When reading the part about median wages, I became curious to know the related figures in Germany and in Spain. I want to share this information in case somebody is curious to know what happens this side of the Atlantic. Presently, the median wage in Spain is about $24.000 (tendency downwards - it is bound to reach the 1997 level by the end of the year). It looks rather different in Germany, where it's been increasing at different rates. Nowadays the median wage is about $41.000 (in 1979 it was $19,000). To someone like me, completely ignorant in economic matters, it is a mystery why there are such different income levels in both countries. |
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Dissident Heart |
Re: Growth through fair income distribution | #18 | ||
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Posts: 1868 04/18/07 16:40:28 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
Mr. P: It is reduction, not redistribution, that McKibben is calling for as I see it so far.
This brings up the $10,000.00 factor that McKibben refers to: the "saturation" point in his happiness calculus. I wish he would spend more time explaining how this works, or if it carries the universal application as his text implies. (Without a book nearby) McKibben argues that money can buy happiness, up to about $10,000.00....beyond that, not only does happiness not increase, but the two trajectories begin to go in opposite directions: the more income, the less happiness. Thus, for some, an increase in income makes a world of difference, improves quality of life, and lends a great deal to their individual happiness...considering over 3/4 of the planet lives on less than 2 dollars a day, that means (following McKibben's calculus) we would substantially increase world happiness by raising their annual income to $ 10,000.00. Considering those with annual income over $ 10,000.00 are (per McKibben) increasingly unhappy, it seems a transfer of those funds to the billions who need it would make (frankly) everyone happier. |
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misterpessimistic |
Re: Growth through fair income distribution | #19 | ||
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Indisputable BookTalk Master
Posts: 4113 04/18/07 17:00:39 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
Well, you have to pair the number of dollars to the cost of living as well. I make not enough to even get by sometimes. I support 6 people on one salary below the stated poverty level for 6 people in this country. So an increase in income would make me happier in that I would not have to worry about where money is coming from.
But I am not crying here. I have always wanted enough to get by and maybe a bit more to save for my older years. I am NOT the typical american capitalist! I see having too much can actually work against ones happiness and I have seen this for a long time. This is the thing, as I see it: American (or on a more broad view Capitalist) society has based its measure of success on getting more and as much as possible. Those who buy into this can never be happy. If making more is what makes one happy, there can never be a goal where one can say "I am happy" because there is always more to be had in this theory. Our society has lost what it means to live IMO. We put too much emphasis on quantity over quality. Mr. P. I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - Asana Boditharta (former booktalk troll) The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P. What is all this shit about Angels? Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people believe in Angels. Are you F****** STUPID? Has everybody lost their mind? - George Carlin I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper |
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MadArchitect |
Re: Growth through fair income distribution | #20 | ||
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Posts: 3169 04/19/07 17:01:04 Indisputable BookTalk Master |
irishrosem: I wonder what kind of economic and political platform could emerge, within an industrialized, Western nation, which questions economic growth.
I, for one, think that there probably isn't any real place in our established system for a political party or platform to champion the idea of limiting social and economic expansion. "Growth" is to endemic a part of the structure of the system, and it's bound to arise as a logical conclusion or an impetus to political and social action. That isn't to say that there's no place for an ideological alternative to growth, but I think it's best to view any movement towards it as prepatory only. The current social system is, ultimately, susceptible to a number of weaknesses, and if history is any indication, it's likely to reach a point at which it is no longer capable of sustaining it's own expansion. Some sort of collapse -- like the social and economic collapse of Imperial Rome -- seems likely, though perhaps not in the short term. If (or when) that does happen, it makes good sense to have that alternative ideology ready to stand in its stead. Tangental to the discussion proper, I suppose: I've been reading John Reader's "Africa, A Biography of the Continent", which provides some very interesting perspectives on the sorts of societies that can arise in contrast to the monumental state. And incidentally, welcome to Raul. Based on his contributions to this thread, I'd say he's likely to make a welcome addition to BookTalk. |
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- Additional Book Discussions
- Godless in America: Conversations With an Atheist - by George A. Ricker
- Interventions - by Noam Chomsky
- Religious Expression and the American Constitution - by Franklyn S. Haiman
- Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future - by Bill McKibben
- The God Delusion - by Richard Dawkins
- The Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal - by Jared Diamond
- The Woman in the Dunes - by Abe Kobo
- Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction - by Eugenie Scott
- The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals - by Michael Pollan
- I, Claudius: From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 - by Robert Graves
- Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon - by Daniel Dennett
- A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East - by David Fromkin
- The Time Traveler's Wife - by Audrey Niffenegger
- The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason - by Sam Harris
- Ender's Game - by Orson Scott Card
- The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time - by Mark Haddon
- Value & Virtue in a Godless Universe - by Erik J. Wielenberg
- The March: A Novel - by E.L. Doctorow
- The Ethical Brain - by Michael Gazzaniga
- Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism - by Susan Jacoby
- Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed - by Jared Diamond
- The Battle for God - by Karen Armstrong
- The Future of Life - by Edward O. Wilson
- What is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live - by A.C. Grayling
- Civilization and It's Enemies: The Next Stage of History - by Lee Harris
- Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space - by Carl Sagan
- How We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God - by Michael Shermer
- Looking For Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain - by Antonio Damasio
- Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them): A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right - by Al Franken
- The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature - by Matt Ridley
- The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature - by Stephen Pinker
- Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder - by Richard Dawkins
- Atheism: A Reader - edited by S. T. Joshi
- Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century - by Howard Bloom
- The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History - by Howard Bloom
- Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies - by Jared Diamond
- Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark - by Carl Sagan
- Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West - by Dee Alexander Brown
- Future Shock - by Alvin Toffler

